1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,520 Hi everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today. We have a pretty big group,. 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:21,120 So we're going to give everyone a minute or two to log on and then we'll get started. 3 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:41,200 Good afternoon everyone. Um we are going to get. 4 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:52,320 Started in just a minute. Thank you so much for joining us today. 5 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:31,200 Hi everyone and thank you for joining today's webinar, executive investigations,. 6 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,920 Ensuring leadership accountability and workplace integrity. We're recording today's session and. 7 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,880 We'll share it with you following the webinar. If you have any questions,. 8 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,880 Please use a Q&A function on your Zoom panel. Now I'd like to hand it over to. 9 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:49,280 Our moderator for today's session HRU's chief people officer Rebecca Chsky. Thank. 10 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:55,280 You Lexi and I'm very happy to be moderating today's session. I am looking forward to this. 11 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:00,400 Topic. I think that's why we have so many people joining. We had a lot of interest in this one. 12 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:06,880 But before we get to today's hot topic, I'm going to run through a few slides to share a little bit. 13 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:12,720 About HR Acuity and what we do for those of you who may not be familiar or perhaps it's your first. 14 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:20,560 Time joining us for one of our webinars. So if it is, welcome and we can go to the next slide. 15 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:27,920 So uh for those of you who may not know, HR Acuity is the thought leader in strategic. 16 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:33,760 Employee relations and we provide technology solutions that are purpose-built specifically. 17 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:41,520 For HR and ER practitioners and leaders and professionals and we offer a an array. 18 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:48,240 Of support and an array of best practices and technologies to help you. So everything from. 19 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:54,880 Anonymous reporting so that your employees feel that they can raise issues and concerns safely and. 20 00:02:54,880 --> 00:03:02,320 Uh without without any worries. Um easy ways for managers to document things so that they. 21 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:07,440 Can keep track of what's happening and then share that with HR when they need additional support. 22 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:14,320 We have a great case management and investigations solution that helps practitioners ensure that. 23 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:21,600 They're following consistent processes, driving best practices, um conducting investigations in. 24 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:29,200 A way that will result in the very best and um the most consistent outcomes that they can that they. 25 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:36,080 Can achieve. And then we have analytics that ties the entire platform together to help professionals. 26 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:42,080 Identify where they may have um patterns that they need to be more proactive about or what they need. 27 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:47,520 To highlight to leadership in terms of getting additional resources or making recommendations. 28 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,480 So be sure to check us out. We can take you on a curiosity tour of our solutions if you're. 29 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:58,160 Interested. In addition to our technology, we we're obsessed with employee relations and with. 30 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:05,360 Supporting this community. So we do a lot and we offer our benchmark study that comes out annually. 31 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:12,720 And it's about to be launched or rather it's about to be uh published again in just a couple. 32 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:18,640 Of weeks. Um in fact I think it's a little over a week. So be on the lookout for that. We're going. 33 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:26,720 To have a webinar to share insights from that. And um we offer our empower community as well. So that. 34 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:32,000 Is something that everyone who's on this webinar today should join. It's free. It's an online. 35 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,600 Community where you can get support from other HR and ER practitioners and professionals. You can. 36 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:44,320 Ask questions. You can share what you're doing. There are job boards. Um there are very specific. 37 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:50,000 Um communities on just specific topics if you want to do a deep dive or ask something very. 38 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:56,640 Specific on accommodations or labor relations, you name it. So do join. I know that Lexi will. 39 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:04,240 Put the links to uh how to get involved in the chat. We also have a maturity model for employee. 40 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:10,320 Relations so you can track where you are in your journey as an organization like where are you. 41 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:15,520 Um how can you take practical steps to get even better at what you're doing for your. 42 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:20,720 Organization. So it's called the ERQ. So, be sure to check that out on our website. And we offer our. 43 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:28,480 Roundt for global ER leaders to get together in person. It's happening in October in Boston. And. 44 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:34,160 It is the event that is not to be missed. It's unlike any other kind of event like this. The. 45 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:40,880 Um just the the the vibe there is so supportive and so insightful. You will learn so much and. 46 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:45,280 And expand your network. So, do uh get involved with that if you're interested. 47 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:52,880 As well. and Lexi is putting everything in the chat for you so we can go to the next slide. 48 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:59,520 Uh so coming up similar to this webinar we have a couple of webinars coming up. So we have one. 49 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:06,080 That's in empower itself. So it's uh hosted in our community. So definitely join the community. 50 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:14,800 And then join us actually tomorrow at this same time. and it is a member-led discussion. 51 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:20,560 Uh around unions and it's with our partner LRI Consulting. So you don't want to miss that. It's. 52 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,120 Called should we say the U word? So it's all about labor relations and navigating today's. 53 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:31,520 Climate for union um union relationships, union avoidance. Whether you have unions or don't,. 54 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:37,200 It's for you. Um and then we have another one coming up uh AI and HR top five risks. 55 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,200 And opportunities. I know that one's going to be a hot topic because everyone is learning as. 56 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:48,240 Fast as they can about how AI can enhance our work and make us better and uh also you know. 57 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:56,080 We want to avoid the risks. So do join that at on June 12th that is coming up very soon. Okay. So,. 58 00:06:56,080 --> 00:07:00,720 I'm very excited to share that for all of our webinars for for anyone who's attended,. 59 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:09,680 You know that we ask our speaker or our expert to select a um nonprofit or a charity that's near and. 60 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:15,120 Dear to their heart and we will make a donation uh to thank everybody for attending today and. 61 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:20,880 To thank them for their perspective and their expertise. And so today's is the collaborative. 62 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:26,880 For academic social and emotional learning, which is an organization that helps make evidence-based. 63 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,680 Social and emotional learning an integral part of education from preschool through high school. I. 64 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:37,280 Know that my boys have benefited from that. So I love this one. Thank you so much. And. 65 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:43,360 Uh so without further ado, I believe it is time for me to introduce our speaker. So our speaker. 66 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:50,240 Today is Chedza Enzer Masanga and she is the owner and founder of Transformative Workplace. 67 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:56,480 Investigations. So very excited to have her with us. She'll be a great uh speaker on today's topic. 68 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:02,400 This is an external investigations and consulting firm that's based in the Seattle area. And Chedza. 69 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:07,920 Works with organizations across all kinds of sectors, empowering them to integrate equity,. 70 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,920 Transparency, and accountability into their workplace investigations, policies,. 71 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:17,680 And practices, and helps organizations enhance employee trust and credibility and engagement. 72 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:24,080 Through this investigative process, enabling them to gather insights into their workplace issues. 73 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:29,440 And uh she is drawing from a wealth of experience as a former plaintiff's side employment attorney. 74 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:34,480 And so Chedza brings a unique perspective to workplace dynamics. And she has years. 75 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:40,240 Of advocating for clients in cases involving workplace discrimination, harassment, retaliation,. 76 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:46,720 And wage theft. So she's adept at navigating the complexities in today's work environment. And I. 77 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:52,560 Know that she will be a great expert for us to learn from today. So Chadza, thank you so much. 78 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:58,800 For sharing with our community. I know that we'll have lots of questions. Uh, typically I will jump. 79 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:04,480 In and ask the questions, but for everyone who's been on webinars before, today we're going to try. 80 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:09,280 And keep track of the questions that are coming in the chat and in the Q&A, and we will get to those. 81 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:15,920 At the end because there is so much juicy content that we want to make sure we cover. All right,. 82 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:20,560 Thank you so much for that warm introduction, Rebecca. I'm excited to be here with you all. I'm. 83 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:27,200 Not going to lie, that tech is um skipping over my introduction slide. And so um I'm I'm just excited. 84 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:34,480 For us to be here to be talking about um executive investigations and accountability in these. 85 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:41,360 Executive investigations. As Rebecca shared, I am a workplace investigator and owner of my own firm,. 86 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,720 Uh, Transformative Workplace Investigations, where I work with organizations across sectors,. 87 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:52,640 Um, helping them to navigate complex, uh, concerns such as executive investigations, as well as. 88 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:59,920 Training HR and ER teams on uh, workplace, how to navigate workplace issues and investigations. And. 89 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:05,760 So this uh topic is selfishly something that I uh wanted to talk about because it's something that's. 90 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,480 Been coming up a lot in my own practice. And I know that when we share what we're going through,. 91 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:15,280 Oftentimes others are going through it too. It helps us not to feel so alone. Sometimes we can. 92 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:21,520 Share and learn things from one another and um and be able to to move forward. And so with that,. 93 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:28,640 We can dive right into our agenda. Uh today we'll be discussing some of the unique dynamics that. 94 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:36,480 Come up in executive investigations. And so as you may be aware uh executive level or senior level uh. 95 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,600 Investigations come with their own challenges and complexities. And so we'll be discussing uh what. 96 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:47,280 Those can look like. Uh we'll also be diving into power and pressure. And so oftent times. 97 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:54,240 With executive or senior level investigations um where we are either investigating or um hearing. 98 00:10:54,240 --> 00:11:02,160 Concerns from senior level leaders, we uh need to navigate things like power dynamics or uh biases. 99 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:07,760 Um confidentiality, interim measures, things like that. And so we'll be talking about how. 100 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:14,560 To navigate those issues um when there's power and pressure at play. Um we'll talk about retaliation. 101 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:21,760 Risks. oftent times people are um either afraid to report or participate in investigations involving. 102 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:27,040 Executives or senior leaders due to fear of retaliation. And so we'll be talking about how. 103 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:33,600 To spot subtle signs of retaliation in these types of investigations and what interim protections. 104 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:40,160 You may want to put in place when you are uh investigating an executive. And then lastly, we'll. 105 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:46,720 Talk about mitigation strategies for managing the organizational impact from an executive or senior. 106 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,600 Level investigation. And so sometimes there is the potential for organizational fallout. 107 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:59,120 And we'll talk about strategies to uh mitigate that. So before we jump uh into the content,. 108 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:06,240 I just wanted to start with a poll for us and the question is what's the biggest challenge you have. 109 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:14,000 Had or seen uh when investigating a senior level uh leader? Is it navigating internal pressure or. 110 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:20,640 Policies? Is it ensuring fairness despite those power dynamics that might be in play? Um has. 111 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:27,200 It been protecting confidentiality and trust? uh preventing or addressing retaliation as we spoke. 112 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:32,640 About just a minute ago. There are oftentimes those concerns um or is it staying consistent. 113 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,960 With past investigations? Sometimes there's pressure to do things a little bit differently. 114 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:43,600 When there's a senior leader involved. And so um there may be challenges around staying consistent. 115 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:51,440 Um I' I'd love to give folks just a few minutes to or a minute here to answer the poll question. 116 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:40,320 All right. It looks like the uh winner here is ensuring fairness despite power dynamics. 117 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:46,000 And it looks like otherwise we're kind of across the board um here with responses. 118 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,720 And so that's that's great. Thank you for sharing that. It is a challenge to. 119 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:56,080 Uh ensure fairness despite power dynamics. And we'll be talking about how to to navigate each. 120 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:03,760 Of these issues during today's webinar. So before we uh jump into all of that,. 121 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,400 I just like to ground us in a definition. What is it that we're talking about when. 122 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:14,080 We're talking about an executive investigation or a senior level investigation? Um generally what. 123 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:19,920 We're talking about is a workplace investigation that involves someone in the seauite um a senior. 124 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:27,360 Leader with organizational influence someone with authority over others or a uh high public profile. 125 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:33,120 Whether that's internally or externally in the community. Um the scope of these investigations. 126 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:40,080 Generally involves like I shared someone in the seauite maybe a VP um sometimes it can be a board. 127 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:47,040 Member and these types of investigations do come with their own challenges and so oftentimes what. 128 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:54,800 We see is that um while the investigative process or principles stay the same we see that the stakes. 129 00:14:54,800 --> 00:15:03,760 The dynamic and the required safeguards in these types of investigations are more complex. effects. 130 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:09,600 And so why are executive investigations different? Um, as I shared, usually in. 131 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,720 These types of investigations, the stakes are higher. Um, there are concerns often about. 132 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:19,280 Reputational risk for the organization, right? Is there organizational exposure,. 133 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:25,360 Whether that's internally, um, that can impact the culture of your organization or externally? 134 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:32,080 Um can that impact the the investigation, impact the reputation of your organization? Um there's. 135 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:38,640 Also legal exposure. Oftentimes when there's a senior uh leader involved in an investigation,. 136 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:44,800 There may be the possibility for higher liability in those types of situations. Um employee trust. 137 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:50,800 Is always uh something that we deal with in all investigations, but particularly in. 138 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:57,680 Uh senior level or executive investigations, we can see impacts to morale. We can see uh impacts. 139 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:05,200 To engagement or productivity um and and this erosion of trust. Um and then lastly is leadership. 140 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:12,080 Credibility or um authority may be questioned. And so folks are looking to see how um we handle. 141 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:18,000 Investigations that involve senior leaders. Um and that can either lead to um bolstering. 142 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,880 Our credibility and our integrity within the organization or it can lead to undermining. 143 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:28,880 Our credibility. And so as investigators, it's important for us to remember that our job is. 144 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:36,240 Really to bring that sense of neutrality um to a high pressure situation and a high-profile process. 145 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:43,040 Um without being swayed by those uh internal dynamics around status or influence. 146 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:50,160 Now, these are some common scenarios that um you may see and that I know I have dealt. 147 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:58,400 With in my own practice um such as a CEO being accused of harassment by a junior employee. Um. 148 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:05,200 I have dealt with cases where there have been um allegations of a VP um misusing funds or. 149 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:10,960 Engaging in financial misconduct. um board members can sometimes be involved in these. 150 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:17,680 Executive level investigations. Um and so I have seen situations where board members have been. 151 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:25,040 Um accused of engaging in retaliation. Um and then lastly uh seuite whistleblower. 152 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:31,200 Um allegations where a seauite leader has allegedly uh retaliated against a reporter. 153 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,600 Um and so in each of these cases oftentimes what we're dealing with is some sort of. 154 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:41,680 Public scrutiny. Um again both internally and externally there may be pressure from. 155 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:47,120 Um your board from other senior leaders from employees within the organization. 156 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:53,040 Um in relation to how the situation gets handled and really what employees are looking for and. 157 00:17:53,040 --> 00:18:01,440 Others in the organization are looking for is um signs of fairness that the process is fair. 158 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:07,760 So when we're dealing with senior leaders and executives, unfortunately what we can often. 159 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:13,600 Deal with is that uh influence either directly or indirectly based on power. 160 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:20,000 Dynamics. And so we want to be sure that we are navigating power dynamics by recognizing first. 161 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:27,200 Uh certain signs um such as employee hesitation. Um, oftentimes employees are reluctant to report. 162 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:33,920 Issues involving leadership due to that perceived power imbalance. There can be concerns about how. 163 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:39,760 That will impact their career, whether there may be retaliation or blowback. And so, um, folks. 164 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:47,680 May be hesitant to come forward. Uh, we may also see leadership pressure. Um and so as I spoke to. 165 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:54,880 Uh before we may see pressure from different sides of the organization other um executive leaders or. 166 00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:02,080 Senior leaders in the organization may subtly or explicit uh explicitly try to influence or direct. 167 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:08,560 The investigation outcomes. Um it can even come from the executive who is either the complainant. 168 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:15,120 Or the respondent in an in investigation. and they may want to direct how the investigation goes. And. 169 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:21,920 So that's something to be mindful of. And then there may be witness fear. And so oftent times. 170 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:28,320 What we see is that witnesses or those who have firsthand knowledge are often anxious about the. 171 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:34,800 Potential consequences of providing testimony or information against executives or senior leaders. 172 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:42,240 And so I know sometimes internally there may be policies um related to the obligation to cooperate. 173 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:49,200 With an investigation that can help manage this uh witness fear. Um but oftentimes I have seen as. 174 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:54,960 An external investigator that there may be times where I have challenges um getting witnesses to. 175 00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:00,480 Participate in the investigation. And it's always helpful to encourage folks that the information. 176 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:06,720 That they share really helps us to get the full context of the situation so that we can make fair. 177 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:12,400 And reasoned findings. Um, but along with that, we want to make sure that when we're navigating. 178 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:18,400 Power dynamics that we have a protected process. Um, and what I mean by that is that we really want. 179 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:25,280 To set expectations around confidentiality and information sharing. Um, oftentimes when there's. 180 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:30,640 An investigation going on, people want to know what's happening. Um, and and we want to be able. 181 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:36,320 To protect the integrity of the process. And so, it's important to um know what for folks. 182 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:42,720 To know what can be shared. Um, in my practice, I oftentimes share where I am in the process. Um,. 183 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:48,800 I won't share details about what I have learned in in my interviews. However, I'm willing to. 184 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:55,120 Tell people I'm at the interviewing stage or I'm still interviewing folks. I am um now looking at. 185 00:20:55,120 --> 00:21:00,480 Evidence or I'm drafting my report so that folks don't feel like they're left out of the loop. 186 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,760 They know that things are moving forward. Um it's also important to protect the process by putting. 187 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:11,680 Interim measures in place when appropriate. And so if you identify at the outset of an investigation. 188 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:17,360 That interim measures are appropriate, um it's important to put those in place. Sometimes those. 189 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:23,280 Um issues um or concerns may come up in the midst of an investigation. And whenever identified,. 190 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,080 It's important that we take those steps to protect the the process. And so we'll be talking about. 191 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:35,920 Inter interim measures um in a in a few slides here. It's also important for us to use uh neutral. 192 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:41,440 Language when we're navigating power dynamics. And so that means maintaining impartial communication. 193 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:47,760 Throughout the investigation process. Um, if possible, if you can avoid any use of um,. 194 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:53,920 Titles or differential phrasing in your interviews or when you're communicating with participants,. 195 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:59,040 Um, that's helpful to, uh, just show that we're being fair, we're being impartial, and we're. 196 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:06,320 We're neutral in investigating the situation. And then lastly is really wanting to be clear. 197 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:13,200 On participant rights during the investigation, particularly when power dynamics are at play. Um,. 198 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:18,720 We want to make sure that we're communicating about non- retaliation um, in our admonitions. 199 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:25,040 At the outset of an investigation, letting folks know that policy and law protect them against. 200 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,760 Retaliation. Um, letting folks know that they have the right to due process, right? They have. 201 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:35,760 The right to be heard and to share their side of the story or whatever information or experiences. 202 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:41,760 They have to share. Um, and for the respondent in the investigation, if that's a senior leader or. 203 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:47,120 Um, an employee, letting them know that they um, have a right to respond to the allegations. 204 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:53,120 Against them. Um, and then lastly, if you're in a union environment, letting folks know that they. 205 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:58,640 Um, depending on the context, have their right to union representation. Um, in other contexts, there. 206 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:06,000 May be it may be appropriate that someone has an attorney or um, other representation present. 207 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:15,840 And so concerns about um bias often come up in uh executive investigations. And as. 208 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:23,520 Um many folks shared at the outset in the poll that uh fairness is an issue in navigating these. 209 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,280 Types of concerns. And so we want to be able to recognize bias and manage it so that we can. 210 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:34,400 Protect the integrity of our process. And so I think it's important for us to talk through. 211 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:40,480 Some of the common types of bias that show up in executive investigations. Um the first of which. 212 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:47,120 Is authority bias. And this is where you give undue weight to statements from higher status. 213 00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:52,400 Individuals. And so when you're dealing with an executive or a senior leader, you may take that. 214 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:59,600 Executive's denial of the allegations at va face value um versus scrutinizing the complaintant's. 215 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:06,080 Version of events or um their complaint. Um in order for us to be able to manage for this,. 216 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,680 It's important that we use the same evidentiary standard for all. And so we want to be able to. 217 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:18,000 Give everybody an opportunity to be heard and then weigh the evidence and the credibility. 218 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:25,840 Um and use our credibility factors to be able to uh reach our findings. 219 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:31,840 Another common type of bias that comes up in executive or senior level investigations is. 220 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:37,360 Anchoring bias. And so that is where we rely too heavily on the first piece of information. 221 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:43,840 You receive or we anchor in that first piece of information. Um, an example of this is allowing. 222 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:51,840 An executive or an HR leader's initial framing of the uh concern or allegations to shape your. 223 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:58,240 View before you interview others in the process. Um, what we want to do here is delay forming any. 224 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,880 Conclusions. You really don't want to reach any conclusions before you've gathered all of. 225 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,920 The information, interviewed all of the witnesses, reviewed any documentation,. 226 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:17,120 And then of course again weighing the credibility of those um that evidence to make your findings. 227 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:25,600 Priming bias is another one that often comes up particularly um in internal um investigations. I,. 228 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,920 You know, at times experienced this as an internal investigator and still experience. 229 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:36,000 It in my practice now. Um, and that's allowing early unofficial impressions to shape how you. 230 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:44,640 View a case. And so oftent times you will have um other leaders or HR leaders um or um others. 231 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:51,920 In the organization who want to um provide you their unofficial impressions of the individual. 232 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:58,720 Um parties in the case or they may want to um form your opinions or impressions about the. 233 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,880 Outcome or what took place. Um and so you may hear things like this complainant is difficult or this. 234 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:10,960 Person has an agenda. Um, and then you start to interpret their behavior through that lens. And so. 235 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:18,080 What I like to do is limit my exposure to informal comments or any type of reputational noise. Um,. 236 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:23,440 This can be hard to do. Um, but oftent times I'm asking really for the facts only. I want. 237 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:30,080 To rely on the facts and the evidence. And so um if it is uh someone who's who's. 238 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:35,840 Uh handing over the case to me, I will ask them you know if they there was an intake just for the. 239 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:41,200 Information from the intake. I don't want to hear their impressions um so that I can go through the. 240 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:47,440 Investigation and reach my own um conclusions based on those facts and that evidence. 241 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:54,080 The halo and horns effect is also a common one that comes up in these executive level or senior. 242 00:26:54,080 --> 00:27:01,360 Level investigations. Um that's letting a positive known as the halo or a negative known as the horns. 243 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:10,320 Trait uh influence your entire view of a person. Um and so you may overlook misconduct because um a. 244 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:17,520 Uh executive has delivered strong business results or you may be encouraged to overlook uh misconduct. 245 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:24,160 Because the executive has delivered uh strong results and that's the halo effect or it may be. 246 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:30,960 Um assuming guilt based on unrelated leadership complaints. And so this may be a leader who's been. 247 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:38,480 Complained about before and uh you may assume that they're guilty um based on those past complaints. 248 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:45,280 Um the tip here is that we really want to judge each situation on its own facts. Um it's important. 249 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:50,960 For us to remember and sometimes this can be hard to do that past performance doesn't always dictate. 250 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:57,920 Present behavior. And so when we're dealing um with uh executives um in and senior leaders,. 251 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:06,800 We want to just be mindful of that halo and horns effect. And lastly, we often see attribution bias. 252 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:13,120 And this is where we attribute others behavior to their character instead of the situation. And so. 253 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:19,840 This can be assuming a complainant is overreacting and then labeling them as dramatic or emotional. 254 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:26,160 Rather than recognizing the emotional toll that may come along with reporting uh a person who's. 255 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:32,480 In a position of authority like a senior leader or executive. Um the same can go for if you know. 256 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:41,120 The executive um is in is is the complainant um or respondent. We want to consider external. 257 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:47,920 Pressures, trauma, or fear when interpreting uh participant behavior. And so when we're thinking. 258 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:53,040 About bias in general, it's really important for us to to slow down our decision making. We. 259 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:59,680 Don't want to jump to any early conclusions. As I shared before, we want to um make sure that we are. 260 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,600 Um taking the opportunity to gather all of the available evidence. Um we may think about using. 261 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:12,240 Things like fact matrices. um tools that help us to ground ourselves in the facts and evidence of. 262 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:21,440 The case versus these uh external um pressures or these uh external impressions. Um we may also use. 263 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:28,000 Standardized questions in our interviews. And so that can look like um with witnesses using a. 264 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:34,080 A set of questions. Um, and then you know, you don't want to be scripted, but you do want to. 265 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:39,760 Um be sometimes when bias is at play, you do want to be consistent in the questions that. 266 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:46,480 You're asking your witnesses. And then consider bringing in um peer reviewers if there are um. 267 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:55,760 Concerns about bias or an external investigator if um there are serious concerns of bias. 268 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,480 Now, bias can be real or perceived. And I think that this is important and does. 269 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:07,280 Come up particularly in these executive level investigations. Um, real bias is conscious or. 270 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:13,040 Unconscious bias that has a measurable influence on judgment. And so at times if you're working. 271 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:20,080 Internally, you may be supporting departments or teams um or ma specific managers or leaders and. 272 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:26,560 That may cause you to have an unconscious bias or affinity for those individuals that impacts. 273 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,920 Your judgment in the case. And so you want to be mindful of that. Um perceived bias is where the. 274 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:38,720 Parties um or participants believe that you cannot be partial in the investigation, right? And so. 275 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:44,240 Even if you believe that you're being objective, um you may have dealt with prior investigations. 276 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:51,040 Involving the same participants and um they may not have viewed the prior outcome favorably,. 277 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:57,200 Right? And so there's this perception of bias. Um, this matters because both of these types of bias,. 278 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:03,200 Both real and perceived, damage trust and it does influence uh employee confidence. 279 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:09,120 Um in the investigation and and legal risk. And so you want to be thinking about ways to. 280 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:16,560 Um mitigate that and we'll talk about that in the slide to come. Um conflicts of interest can. 281 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:23,120 Also show up in internal investigations. They can also show up externally if you've uh handled an. 282 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:30,960 Investigation for uh a a same organization um on multiple occasions. Um some examples of of. 283 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:36,400 This internally are investigating within your reporting line. Um if there's an opportunity. 284 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,600 For you to pass an investigation on to a colleague um or bring someone in to. 285 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:47,200 Assist when an investigation uh involves a senior leader within your reporting line. 286 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:52,480 Um you may want to consider doing that. Um as I spoke to before, previous working relationships. 287 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:58,800 With the parties, maybe you have uh worked with or support those managers, leaders, teams,. 288 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:05,040 Um that may uh present a conflict of interest. Um and then also strong personal opinions about. 289 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:11,440 A party. And so if for example you've investigated a case involving the same participants or leaders. 290 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:17,280 Before, you may have opinions that you've formed about those individuals um that may pose conflict. 291 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:23,920 Of interest. Um and this can lead to risk and uh and challenges to the credibility of. 292 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:30,160 Your investigation. Um questions about partiality like we talked about. There's that perception of. 293 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:36,480 Um bias. It can lead to reputational harm um both internally and externally. And then again, legal. 294 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:42,720 Challenges. And so we want to um be thinking about ways to mitigate that. Um disclosing potential. 295 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,400 Conflicts early. If you think that there may be a conflict, that's an opportunity for you to consult. 296 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:54,640 With either your colleagues, your leadership, legal or compliance to um discuss whether there. 297 00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:03,040 Is a uh potential conflict of uh interest issue. um if appropriate and available to you, you may uh. 298 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:09,120 Decide to recuse yourself from the investigation if for example there is a conflict of interest or. 299 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:15,920 You believe that you can't be fair and impartial um in the investigation. um using peer reviewers. 300 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:21,920 I've spoke about or co-investigators is another opportunity or third-party investigators if there. 301 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:28,960 Is a conflict of interest and to the extent that you are in a situation where you are on your own. 302 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:35,120 Um it's really important for you to just document the steps that you took to be objective and so. 303 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:40,960 Documenting um every step of the investigation is really important um so that you can point. 304 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:46,800 To that documentation and how you were able to maintain objectivity um despite some of these. 305 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:56,880 Other factors that might be at play. Um rumors and uh misinformation often get spread um in. 306 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:05,440 Investigations involving senior leaders and this can be a challenge to um to manage. Um some of. 307 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,560 Those challenges include that more stakeholders feel that they're entitled to information, right? 308 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:20,160 You may be getting questions from other leaders or employees. Um it could be coming from uh a other. 309 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:25,920 HR leaders in the organization. And so um you want to just be sure that you're managing for. 310 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:32,800 That to protect the integrity of your process. Um suspicions often come up when when we are engaged. 311 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:40,160 In senior leader investigations and so um those can be challenges to confidentiality as well. And. 312 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:46,000 Then as I spoke about internal rumors, sometimes media gets involved and it can be a cha really a. 313 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:52,000 Challenge to um manage those things. Um some of the things that we can do to mitigate or protect. 314 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:58,720 Our process um and keep things um confidential to the extent possible is to share information. 315 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:04,640 On a need to know basis. Right? We only want to include the stakeholders that really need to know. 316 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:11,760 Um certain pieces of information. oftentimes as I shared I will share where I'm at in a process. Um. 317 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:18,080 I generally don't share I don't share any findings um or uh information about what. 318 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:24,960 I have learned during the investigation. I will share that in my report or during a oral report. 319 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:31,600 Um it's important for us to provide consistent information to parties um and limit uh the. 320 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,640 Information that's shared to stakeholders. And that's um also a way to be strategic in our. 321 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:42,240 Communication. Um and it when you're doing this and if you get push back, it's just important. 322 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:47,840 For us to ground this in our policies and that we are working to protect the integrity of the. 323 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:54,080 Process so that we can reach uh fair findings, right? We want to be able to protect the. 324 00:35:54,080 --> 00:36:02,560 Uh people and the process and reached a uh reach a well-reasoned conclusion based on the evidence. 325 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,840 So in in executive uh investigations, our credibility really does hinge on. 326 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:14,560 Maintaining consistency in our process. And so oftentimes there may be pressure for us to. 327 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:21,120 Uh change the process or handle things informally or um in a way that is inconsistent with our. 328 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:27,280 Typical investigation process. Um but we really want to ensure that we are um using. 329 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:33,280 Equitable treatment for all participants involved in the investigation. Um you want to use the same. 330 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:40,720 Process every time. Um any document you want to document any deviations from that process. And so,. 331 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:45,920 Um, people may be looking out for inconsistencies. We want to have a clear rationale. If we do. 332 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:52,880 Deviate from our, um, our policy or our practice in investigations when, uh, investigating a. 333 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,520 Executive or senior leader, you want to make sure that you're documenting why. Um, and then. 334 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,720 We want to demonstrate accountability, right? And that's treating all participants with the same. 335 00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:10,000 Standards. We want to give them due process. Um why this matters? Um as we've spoken about before,. 336 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:16,480 Unequal treatment does damage trust. And so we want to be able to maintain trust in our process. 337 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:22,240 Um inconsistencies lead to legal risk. And so um if an executive leader feels that they're being. 338 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:28,720 Treated unfairly in a process or if employees feel that the leader is being treated differently in. 339 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:34,720 The process, that can lead to legal risks about uh bias in the process or discrimination. And so. 340 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:41,040 We really want to um be aware of that. And then again uh accountability. Um employees. 341 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:46,240 Uh and leaders are watching to see how we handle the case and that we're handling it fairly. 342 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:54,720 Um and in line with our process. And so you want to be mindful of that. Now pressure often comes. 343 00:37:54,720 --> 00:38:00,400 Up in these executive level investigations and that can be subtle, it can be overt. Um,. 344 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,680 Sometimes it's unintentional, but you might hear things like, um, we need to wrap this up quickly,. 345 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:12,080 Or we need to investigate this fast. Um, or there may be pushes for handling it informally,. 346 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,960 As I shared before. And so people may be saying things like, are we really going to investigate. 347 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:22,880 This issue? Um, it's really important for us to hold our ground. Um, anchor in your policy and. 348 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:29,360 Practices. Um, and so, you know, it's important for us to be saying to folks when concerns are. 349 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,480 Raised, we take them seriously. We investigate them. Um, and that's rooted in your policy and. 350 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:40,400 Your practices. Um, it's important to keep clear and timely documentation. And so sometimes when. 351 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:47,520 Folks are coming forward to report a senior leader or they are um a participant in sharing a concern. 352 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:54,160 About uh a senior leader, they may do so um under the guise of it being informal. And I just wanted. 353 00:38:54,160 --> 00:39:00,160 You to know um it's important to get clarity and document when those concerns come forward. 354 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:07,840 Um get clarity from them about um their concern and also um you know document that concern and if. 355 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:13,600 There's a formal process for making a complaint provide them those uh channels so that if they. 356 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:19,520 Do want to make a formal complaint um they they have been given direction on how to do so. Um,. 357 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:31,360 And then lastly, elevating any concerns to legal or compliance um when needed to um to uh to be. 358 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:38,640 Able to document any concerns about internal pressure or interference uh in your process. 359 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:48,400 So, I want to uh get us into a case study and this case study involves Derek, a. 360 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:55,600 Uh employee relations investigator and he is um working with Maya, a senior HR business partner,. 361 00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:01,200 And the scenario involves leadership pressure for a quick resolution. And so,. 362 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:07,440 Let's take a look at um the interaction between Derek and Maya. 363 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:15,360 Hey, do you have a minute to chat about the ongoing investigation? Of course. I just came. 364 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:22,160 From the leadership huddle. They're anxious about the situation. I anticipated that we're. 365 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:27,280 Still in the early stages, and I won't rush the analysis, but the individual involved is. 366 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:33,360 Leading a high-profile project. The exec team is getting questions, and they're feeling the heat. 367 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:39,040 Handling it quietly doesn't mean skipping essential steps. The complainant deserves. 368 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,160 A thorough process. I understand, but the longer this goes on, the more complicated. 369 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:50,320 It can become. I've seen what happens when the process is compromised. Rushing this. 370 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:55,840 Could harm trust within the organization. All right, I'll communicate that it's in progress,. 371 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:02,320 But not on the timeline they want. Thanks for that. I'll keep you updated, but protecting the. 372 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:14,160 Process and people is my priority. Understood. Let's ensure we stay aligned as this progresses. 373 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:21,520 All right. So, in reflecting on that case study, uh what we see is that leadership wants a quick. 374 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:28,800 Resolution to protect a high profofile project. Um some of the pressure types that we see. 375 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:35,280 Um Derek deal with in his interaction with Maya is leadership urgency, right? And so we see um. 376 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:41,600 That this person is is in being investigated is is leading this project and so people want the. 377 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:47,360 Investigation to move quickly. Um the execs are getting questions and they're feeling the heat,. 378 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:53,600 Right? And so they um are wanting this to move forward quickly. Uh we see issues around the. 379 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,320 Timeline and pressure around the timeline, right? We hear Maya say she'll let them know that it's. 380 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:04,960 In progress but not on the timeline that they want. Um and then we see minimization. And so. 381 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:10,000 Um she shares the longer this goes on, the more complicated it gets. And so there's. 382 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:16,160 Some of that subtle pressure to um kind of minimize things or maybe skip steps. 383 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:23,440 Um, what we see Derek do right in this situation is to establish clear boundaries, right? And so. 384 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:29,280 Derek draws a clear line between operational needs and his ethical obligations. He shares. 385 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:36,400 That he's not willing to rush the analysis. Um, he's going to move forward with his process. Um,. 386 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:43,040 He uses some strategic professional push back, right? He resists any pressure to expedite or. 387 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:50,240 Downplay the process. Um he expresses to Maya that he's seen what happens when a process gets. 388 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:56,480 Uh rushed and that can compromise trust and so he's not willing to do that. Um he stands. 389 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:02,640 In his unwavering commitment to fairness and so he acknowledges that the complainant deserves a. 390 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:08,720 Fair and thorough investigation. Um and that's really important. And then he preserves the. 391 00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:14,000 Process integrity, right? he safeguards the credibility of his investigation by. 392 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:20,320 Refusing to skip any steps. And so as we're thinking about ways to handle um pressure or. 393 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:27,920 Interference in our investigations, we want to think about um some of these strategies. 394 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:34,960 Now, people um often do have a heightened sense of fear when they are reporting a person um in a. 395 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:41,760 Position of power such as an executive or senior leader. um and and they also have these same. 396 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:48,800 Uh concerns when they are um asked to be witnesses uh in an investigation. And so we want to be aware. 397 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:56,400 Of the risks. Um I do see a hand raised and I do want to share that we're going to have. 398 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:01,040 Uh an opportunity for questions at the end and so I'm happy if you'll hold your question or pop. 399 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:07,040 It in the chat, I will make sure to stay on it and answer any questions at the end. Thank you. 400 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:14,560 Um the risks that can come up around um people coming forward or participating. 401 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:21,440 Are potential retaliation, right? Formal or informal uh retaliation. There can be impacts. 402 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:28,000 To career. Um there could be social harm such as isolation or exclusion. And so we. 403 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:34,480 Want to be on the lookout for some of those um things that may come up. Uh we may also. 404 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:41,440 Um we also want to make sure that we're putting safeguards in place. And so um some of that looks. 405 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:47,840 Like communicating uh non- retaliation protections early. Um I like to do it in my admonitions. When. 406 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:53,040 I'm meeting with folks for the first time for an interview, I share with them right away that um. 407 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:59,760 They are protected from retaliation both by policy and law. Um and that a lot of times puts folks at. 408 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:05,040 Ease. I let them know they can reach out if they have concerns about that um so that I can direct. 409 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:12,960 Them to um the right the appropriate channel for addressing those concerns. Um check-ins are. 410 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:18,320 Also important and so we want to make sure that we're having regular check-ins with participants. 411 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:23,600 Um or at least monitoring the workplace um for potential retaliation. Sometimes folks will. 412 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:28,720 Not always come forward if they're experiencing something in the midst of an investigation. And so. 413 00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:34,720 Just checking in to see how things are going. Uh in the midst of an investigation, we may uncover. 414 00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:40,080 Um things that we were not aware of such as retaliation. Um and then having feedback channels. 415 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,840 Um whether that's during the investigation, letting folks know who they can reach out to. 416 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:49,440 If they have concerns or post investigation. um having those feedback channels so that. 417 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:55,360 You can continue to monitor any um concerns and protect those that come forward or participate in. 418 00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:04,320 An investigation. Um retaliation can be overt or I'm sorry covert. And so it can be overt as well,. 419 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:10,000 But it can be covert and hard to spot. And so particularly when senior leaders are involved,. 420 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:15,840 Some of these things um can go under the radar. It doesn't always look like punishment. Um,. 421 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:22,480 Sometimes it looks like distancing themselves or exclusion or restructuring the department or. 422 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,600 Team. Um, and so you want to be on the lookout for that. And sometimes it's even well-meaning,. 423 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,960 Right? An executive is either a complainant or a respondent in an investigation and they. 424 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:39,040 Are distancing themselves um as a result of of that. And so um we just want to make sure that. 425 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:45,200 They are aware of that um and the perception um as we move through the investigation. Um but. 426 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:50,800 Retaliation can oftentimes look like things like career roadblocks, right? Blocking promotions or. 427 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:56,960 Advancement opportunities when someone has either brought forward a complaint or um is a participant. 428 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:03,600 In a complaint. And so um looking at uh you know whether there are uh issues about promotions or. 429 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:09,600 Advancements either during the investigation or um post investigation are things that you should be. 430 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:16,800 Aware of. Uh social isolation is is one that often comes up, right? Excluding employees from meetings. 431 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:23,920 Um and interactions. Um it can be job role changes, reassigning to less uh desirable. 432 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:30,720 Uh responsibilities, positions or job locations. Um, oftentimes we see excessive monitoring. And. 433 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:37,680 So for individuals who either report um or maybe are participants in an investigation um involving. 434 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:46,000 A senior leader as the uh respondent, oftentimes they are um subjected to uh heightened scrutiny. 435 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:51,200 Of their work or their performance. And so you want to be on the lookout for that. Um and then. 436 00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:57,760 There can also be reputational damage um such as spreading rumors or undermining uh a participant's. 437 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:03,600 Credibility based on their participation um in the in the investigation or bringing forward a. 438 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:09,920 Complaint. Um retaliation I think it's really important for folks to know doesn't require. 439 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:17,920 Um malicious intent. Um, even as I shared just before, uh, even well-meaning managers can,. 440 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:23,040 Um, take actions that look retaliatory if they're not careful. Um, and so per. 441 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:29,920 The perception really does matter as much as the intent in these types of investigations. 442 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:34,640 And so I want to uh, take a look again at our case study. Um,. 443 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,600 Derek checks in with the complainant, Renee, who is the direct report. She believes she's. 444 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:50,480 Experiencing retaliation. And Daniel is our senior executive under investigation. 445 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:55,200 Thanks for meeting with me. I wanted to check in and see how things have been for you since. 446 00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:02,160 We last spoke. It's been different. Since I filed the complaint, I've noticed some changes. Daniel. 447 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:08,720 Pulled me from a project I've led for almost a year with no explanation. I appreciate you sharing. 448 00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:14,560 That. Changes like these can be stressful and even if they weren't intended as retaliation, they can. 449 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:21,040 Still feel that way. Perception is important. It feels like I'm being pushed out. No one has said. 450 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:27,760 Anything directly, but it's like I've disappeared overnight. I understand retaliation can manifest. 451 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:34,480 In subtle ways like exclusion or changes to your role. It's crucial to recognize these patterns and. 452 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:39,840 Address them. I was starting to think that this is just how it goes when you speak up, especially. 453 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:46,000 Against someone senior like Daniel. Shouldn't be that way. I'll document your concerns and discuss. 454 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:52,480 Them with HR to ensure no further changes happen until the investigation is complete. Thank you. 455 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:58,240 I really appreciate that. It's comforting to know someone is looking out for me. I'll also send you. 456 00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:04,160 A follow-up form. If anything shifts again, you can share it in a way that's comfortable for you. 457 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:15,840 All right. So, in that scenario, we see Derek do a nice job of being responsive. He is proactive. 458 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,880 In checking in on Renee. He doesn't wait for her to bring forward a formal complaint. Um,. 459 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,600 He checks in with her to see how she's doing. Um, this makes her feel heard,. 460 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:31,600 Right? It shows that he's taking things seriously. Um, and he's taking her concern of retaliation. 461 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:37,600 Seriously. Um, at this point he doesn't have any explicit proof, but he does express that he. 462 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:44,720 Um will uh take a look into those concerns and escalate them. Um, and then he does say he'll. 463 00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:50,480 Again document and escalate those concerns. And so he um shares that he's going to make. 464 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:57,520 Sure that they are appropriately assessed and addressed so that they can move forward. 465 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:04,320 Now, um, as I spoke about before, when there are concerns about retaliation, um, or, uh,. 466 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:11,040 Other forms of harm, we can't always wait until the end of the investigation to act. Um, we may. 467 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:17,200 Want to put in place interim measures at the outset of an investigation involving a executive. 468 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:25,680 Or senior leader, um, or if we, um, unsurface any, uh, concerns during the investigation. um. 469 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:30,560 When interim measures are needed. Um we see that when there are risks of ongoing harm,. 470 00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:36,560 Right? If there are allegations about um discrimination, harassment, uh retaliation,. 471 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:41,840 Um financial misconduct, those are opportunities for ongoing harm. And so we want to consider. 472 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:47,200 Interim measures. Um as I said, risk of retaliation. If there are concerns that. 473 00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:54,160 Um someone is being retaliated against um or will be retaliated against uh we want to uh put. 474 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:59,120 In place our interim measures. And then if there are any risk to the integrity of our evidence,. 475 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:04,960 Right? If there are concerns that there might be tampering with witnesses um or that there may. 476 00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:11,360 Be misinformation spread um in the organization that uh damages the integrity of the information. 477 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,720 We're able to gather in our investigation. We want to uh be putting in place interim. 478 00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:24,480 Measures. Um interim measures can look like role reassignment, right? Temporary reporting changes. 479 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:30,880 Um and and restructuring uh lines of reporting. It can look oftentimes like administrative leave. 480 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:36,400 And so that's pulling um the parties either the respondent or the complainant or both parties. 481 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:41,840 Out of the workplace on paid leave during the investigation. Um it can be no contact. 482 00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:48,880 Directives and that is um requiring no or limited interaction um between the parties during the. 483 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:54,880 Investigation or communication modifications like a third party intermediary or I've seen. 484 00:52:54,880 --> 00:53:00,640 Um emailonly communication mandated during an investigation or it can be schedule changes. 485 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:06,160 So making sure that folks aren't working the same shifts um or remote work options. Um it's. 486 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:12,400 Really important to remember that we don't want um any interim measures to be looked at as punitive. 487 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:17,840 And so we want to um avoid the appearance that they are a type of punishment. We really want to. 488 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:23,760 Emphasize that they are to protect the people and the process um and that they are temporary during. 489 00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:32,000 The investigation. Um any actions that follow will be based on the outcome of the investigation. 490 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:38,080 Um even well-andled investigations um can have an organizational impact. And so we want to prepare. 491 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:45,040 For that impact or potential fallout, things like morale issues, um public in uh attention. 492 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:52,080 Internally or externally or that erosion of trust. Um our role as investigators is really to partner. 493 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:57,360 With our internal partners, whether that's our communications or legal team around the messaging. 494 00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:03,440 For an executive level investigation. oftentimes people know what's going on and so we want to. 495 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:09,680 Um make sure that we have messaging um when when we're uh approached for information. We. 496 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:14,240 Want to debrief leadership on our findings and our outcomes, right? So that they have. 497 00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:20,960 Um have something to ground their next steps or action items post investigation. And then at all. 498 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:28,160 Times, we're wanting to reinforce our values um and our standards in the investigation process. 499 00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:39,440 So, I just want to close this out um with let's see how things end with Derek and um Maya. 500 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:46,160 So, where did we land on the recent case? The findings were substantiated. The investigation. 501 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:52,960 Confirmed a pattern of behavior that violated our code of conduct. Okay. What's the next move from. 502 00:54:52,960 --> 00:55:00,480 Here? We're implementing a role separation. Daniel won't be returning to his position and leadership. 503 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:06,880 Is finalizing a public statement reaffirming our values. And how will this impact the team? 504 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:12,160 That's our next focus. I'm collaborating with communications and organizational development. 505 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:19,200 To support culture repair for the impacted group. I've heard mixed reactions. Some are shocked while. 506 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:26,320 Others expected this. I think they want to see how we follow through. Absolutely. This isn't just. 507 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:33,360 About removing someone. It's about reinforcing that no one is above the standard. Right. It's. 508 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:40,000 Crucial for us to show visible accountability and work on quiet, steady repair. Exactly. I. 509 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,640 Appreciate your support on the roll out and I'll ensure the leadership team stays aligned. 510 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:52,640 With our message. Thanks for the update. Let's treat this as the start of rebuilding trust. 511 00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:02,240 All right. Um so in this particular case with Derek and Maya, we see that there are. 512 00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:07,920 Substantiated findings. Um there is a role separation that is uh planned and there's. 513 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:14,320 Going to be a public statement of values. Um and then there is a plan for um culture repair work,. 514 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:19,760 Right? They they end by saying let's look at this as an opportunity to reestablish trust. 515 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:25,120 Um when we are dealing with these types of uh high-profile investigations involving. 516 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:30,720 Senior leaders or executives, um whether the findings are substantiated or unsubstantiated,. 517 00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:36,640 Some of the things we want to look out for or are that lingering impact. Um fear, mistrust,. 518 00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:42,080 Silence across the team can come up. Um there's oftentimes social division um whether there's. 519 00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:47,440 Isolation or informal punishment. Um and there can be loss of credibility either for the leader. 520 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:53,680 Who was a participant in that investigation or if folks felt the process was unfair that there. 521 00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:59,840 Is loss in the credibility of the investigation process. Um and so we want to be mindful of that. 522 00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:05,520 Um I know we're getting on time and I I really do want to um provide space for questions and so I'm. 523 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,680 Going to just rush through these final should I rush through or should we I saw you there. 524 00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:16,400 Rebecca. we can we can hop to questions but I know the slides will be shared out with folks and so. 525 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:22,400 Um you'll have this information here um but I think again it's it's critical to. 526 00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:29,680 Uh look at culture repair and lastly to consider post investigation repair um and and so those. 527 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:35,920 Are some of the things you'll want to be thinking about post investigation um our takeaways are here. 528 00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:41,600 Uh fairness is a non-negotiable um we want to make sure that we're grounded in a consistent process. 529 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:48,560 Checking for bias and conflicts of interest. Um structure, keep structure um in your policy and. 530 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:53,840 Procedure or using tools to ground yourself. Um prioritizing protections. We talked about. 531 00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:59,600 Spotting retaliation and interim measures and then demonstrating leadership accountability once the. 532 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:05,360 Uh investigation is closed. We want to model transparency um with outcomes and accountability. 533 00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:12,800 If there are issues that um are surfaced during the investigation. I do have uh a free resource. 534 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:18,720 That I did create for folks participating in this webinar, the executive investigations playbook. 535 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:23,200 Um it's some templates and tools to help you manage these types of investigations. Um you. 536 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:28,880 Can scan the QR code or um get it at the link and then I encourage you to stay in contact. 537 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:33,680 I share a lot of uh information and insights on workplace investigations and I look forward. 538 00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:40,560 To staying in touch. And with that, I will uh open it up to any last minute Q&A. I know folks. 539 00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:49,360 Probably have to run. You're on. Thank you so much. Uh Chadza, that was so informative. Um,. 540 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:57,040 I did want to mention that sometimes what we do is host a follow-up session in Empower so that. 541 00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:03,280 People can have a more direct conversation with you on their specific questions. Um,. 542 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:08,640 But I'll try to get through I'll I'll throw a couple of these your way. Um, sure. Any Okay. So,. 543 00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:13,120 A couple related to the beginning when you're determining who's going to be involved in the. 544 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:19,040 Investigation. So would you ever allow an attorney representative to be present if it's an internal. 545 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:27,600 Company investigation is the first one. Sure. Yeah. Um if there are usually if an attorney is. 546 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:32,880 Um asked to be a representative as an internal um that was not something that we denied to. 547 00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:39,440 Complainants. um if there were concerns about um liability, uh for example, a discrimination,. 548 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:45,120 Retaliation, harassment claim, something that might implicate um some kind of legal liability. 549 00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:51,200 Um that was not that was something that we did allow for folks. Okay, great. Um and then somebody. 550 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:56,160 Had a question. you as an outside investigator, um how do you handle situations where. 551 00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:03,680 Complainants or witnesses are concerned about your impartiality? Because the company hired you and. 552 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:08,960 Um so the assumption could be that even you outside wouldn't be impartial because you're. 553 01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:15,440 Ultimately uh it's the executive that you're reporting to in this situation. So do you what. 554 01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:21,040 Do you do if you find that that contributes to reluctance to participate? Yeah, what I like to. 555 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:27,040 Do is just share with folks my role. My role is really to be a third party neutral. Um, I'm not. 556 01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:33,280 A part of the organization. While I do provide a report to the organization, it's to provide the. 557 01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:38,720 Organization with information about what happened and so they have um something to ground their next. 558 01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:45,120 Steps. And so um I'm often helping to just share with folks that that's that's my role in the. 559 01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:51,280 Process. I I don't really have any horse in the race. I I um am just there to be able to gather. 560 01:00:51,280 --> 01:01:00,000 The information so that I can uh relay that back to the organization and I know that we are at time. 561 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:08,240 Um but thank you so much and I do think we have enough kind of curiosity on on this topic that. 562 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:13,600 We should potentially do a follow-up if you're available. I'd be happy to and it, you know,. 563 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:19,680 It may only be 30 minutes. Uh, and so, you know, who knows? Like, there might be a lot of of good. 564 01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,760 Questions, Jenny. Yeah, I'd be happy to have a more open discussion now that we've gotten. 565 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:28,480 Through the the content part. So, I think that would be a great followup. So, I see people are. 566 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:32,640 In support of that. So, thank you everyone for joining us and thank you for your expertise,. 567 01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:39,120 Chedza. It was really, really great. Thank you so much. We'll talk soon. See you next time.